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Join Damien Fogg and I as we share some more of these creative financing strategies based on our own personal experience.
Today we cover adverse possession, credit cards & personal loans, assignable off-plan contracts, friends and family and joint ventures
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Transcription of the show
Hello, and welcome to another episode of The Property Voice podcast. My name is Richard Brown and it’s a pleasure to have you join me on the show again today.
Let’s pick up the conversation I had with Damien from last time, where we discuss another 5 of the 10 additional creative financing strategies we are outlining to bring this series to an end. Today, we will cover adverse possession, credit cards & personal loans, assignable off-plan contracts, friends and family and joint ventures
Speaking of joint ventures, just a quick heads up for you that that is one of the central themes we cover in our upcoming 360° Business Planning Workshops this month. London on Sunday 22nd and Manchester on 28th. We have three core streams, buy-to-let, buy-to-sell and joint ventures.
OK, so let’s get back into the conversation where we left it last time; something to do with squatting is where we left it if you remember. What’s that all about then…we are about to find out!
Damien: People actually live in houses then…
Richard: Ah, now there’s a nice Segway to my next one…People actually living in houses, can I pick up my next one?
Damien: I mean, I’m curious to see how the Segway works, but yeah…go for it.
Richard: How about squatting?
Damien: Oh, I see what you did there…
Richard: Yeah, creative strategy, the next one on my list is called Adverse Possession. Otherwise known as Squatting…And essentially what we have got here is, claiming legal title to a property using the law as the way to do that. And I have never done this one. So, I can only really talk from a knowledge and theoretical point of view. So, there is my big caveat.
Damien: You have never squatted in somewhere before?
Richard: Perhaps, I have actually, but I don’t want to admit it! When I say squat, to get legal ownership, it has to be at least 10 years, so, that’s one of the reasons why I haven’t done it, because I probably don’t want to stay anywhere for 10 years for a start. But, what can happen here is two types of land. There is either registered land or unregistered land. In terms of title. Because believe it or not, there wasn’t a Land Registry forever and a day. So, not all land in the UK, because, we are going to talk about the UK, not all land is actually registered with the Land Registry. So, what the, lawmakers decided to do was make sure that people had, clear legal title when they are selling property. And they came up with a system which basically says if you have occupied a property or a piece of land for a significant period of time; 10 years, this came in in 2003, you could claim legal title to that piece of land and then it would be yours, then you could sell that piece of land or that property on with clean legal title. So, it gives certainty of title and that’s how of the UK title law is predicated effectively. But, if you, so, if the property was unregistered, say it was a field, you can check at Land Registry if it is registered and if not, you can put a fence around the field, you can lock it, you can maintain it, you can put cattle on to graze if you so wish and basically, use it as your own. And if you do that for a period of 10 years, you can apply to Land Registry to have it registered in your name. And after a two period I think it is, if there is no objection, it will be transferred and registered in your name. and there are people who have this as their primary property strategy. Bit of a long-term gain, but as you can probably imagine, it doesn’t have to be land, it can actually be literally houses or offices or things like that. Occupy it for 10 years as if it’s your own, look after it. Obviously, you need evidence all of this, so that’s going to be something to think about. But then in 10 years or 12 years or so, you can then own that property legally. And the reason I’m calling it a creative financing strategy is obviously, you don’t have to spend any money to acquire it. It’s a very niche strategy, it’s one I don’t have direct experience on, so don’t ask me too many detailed questions Damien, but I think for some people if you are wondering around and you see that empty property on the street corner that looks a little bit, tired, and has been for many years, maybe it’s one to think about. Getting access to try and find, you have to try and trace the legal owner if they are registered, do all that good stuff, but otherwise, start making use of it and then in 10 years, it could be yours.
Damien: I mean, it’s an interesting one certainly, the bits I would want to be checking is, at what point is it adverse possession versus just breaking and entering? So, I don’t know where the legal stand point is there, but, I actually do have a bit of experience with this.
Richard: Oh, you have squatted?
Damien: Yeah, I’m basically squatting where I live right now, no—I’m not before anyone comes looking for me. When I used to work with the government quite a lot, the government has random bits of land that most of the time, they don’t even know that they own. And, I sold a piece of land that when we turned up on site, to do the assessment of it, it had one of these fences around it, with a big sign on it saying…John’s Fencing call this number…so I gave the guy a ring. And I was like, why have you put a fence round our land, he was like…oh that’s what I do, I go around fencing off pieces of land that are unregistered, I put my number on it, take all the documentation to say when I have done it, so how long it’s been in possession, and that’s just what I do, effectively that’s his strategy for acquiring land. He owned a fencing company so he used to do this any way. Obviously, we got there, we were like, alright mate, nice try, do you want to clear off now. So, we started the process to get rid of him. As an interesting business angle, though, he did then turn around and say, what you should do is put a fence round it so nobody else can do it. Do you want to pay me for the fence I have put up? You have got to admire his entrepreneurial spirit, but, probably not something I will be getting involved in anytime soon.
Richard: No, I think you probably have to fence quite a lot of areas before you get the winner but, funnily enough, you just jogged my memory. I do know somebody, a friend of mine, who had a piece of land and they had that same experience that you just described. Somebody put a fence on it, put a lock on it, put a sign on it, and fortunately, and this is one of the things, if you have got a piece of land or a property lying around somewhere which is kind of empty or you are not doing anything with. I suggest you go around now and again and just check. Well, certainly within every 10 years which shouldn’t be that onerous.
Damien: We are taking the extremes here, aren’t we? Of someone just fencing off a piece of land. The way this actually plays out under more common circumstances is, someone, you know, when someone moves a fence boundary over a neighbour’s land, or extends it out the back if it’s a row of terraces, they extend their back fence to cover another part. If you can then show that you have done that for 10+ years, then you can say well actually, even though it’s not on my title registry, I have now adversely possessed this for the past 10 years, I want to include that on my Land Registry. So, that’s how it works in a more actual way, rather than people just randomly fencing off bits of land. So, that’s something to bear in mind, yeah you don’t have to inspect a piece of land in a field every 10 years, but keep an eye on your boundaries, if a neighbour says, any chance I can just redo this fence, make sure they do stick to the actual boundaries and don’t encroach on your land bit and then after 10 years so no, that’s mine.
Richard: Yeah, totally agree and we won’t get too much into neighbourly disputes but that is a big cause of neighbourly disputes. But as a creative financing strategy for acquiring property, it’s probably the first part of the conversation, albeit it’s going to be difficult, it’s going to be a slow burn, it’s going to be possibly a low conversion rate. Ok, so we have probably done that one now, so, have you got another one to talk about?
Damien: Yeah, I have got a couple left still. So, Assignable Off-Plan Contracts, this is something you know, before this closure, I’ve not done personally myself, I came pretty close to doing it but then decided to keep it. But effectively what this means is you agree to purchase a property off-plan, usually from a developer, and if you are buying off-plan you usually purchase quite far in advance of the actual property being completed, and the contract is fairly standard and straight forward. You will have things like reservation fee, and then, the rest of the fees will be payable over a period that you agree, and they are all different so there is no point trying to guess what they are. But most contracts will say, once you have reserved, once you have put x amount of money in, that then becomes yours. You have legally agreed to buy that property, it turns into a normal sort of exchange with a completion late down the line, fairly straight forward. When you stick a clause in that says I want this contract to be assignable, what that means is that you can sell your right to purchase this property onto somebody else for the price that you have agreed. So, if it’s a long build out period, let’s say you buy it off plan, it’s not going to be built for 2 years, if capital appreciation kicks in, and you agreed to buy at £200000 and somebody else is now willing to pay £300000 for it, you can assign your contract at £200 to somebody else. So, you can effectively make a profit before the building has been completed. So, I didn’t do that because there weren’t huge capital appreciations, I ended up just buying it and completing it anyway. But, I did fight with the developer to make sure that I had…the contract was assignable within it.
Richard: Yeah and I think therein lies part of the risk as well, if people want to pursue this as a strategy, I think there was a lot of this going on roundabout 2007 time, for example.
Damien: 2006-ish, yeah, I almost certainly should have assigned the contract and moved on but didn’t…
Richard: And then what happened in 2008-09?
Damien: We all had a cry!
Richard: We all had a cry. So, yeah, this is one that will probably get pedalled around the sort of guru property, the communities in hot markets, when the market cycle is at a peak. You know, do assignment contracts, markets going up, you get gazumping, gazundering; all that sort of thing going on, well not gazundering obviously, but certainly gazumping. And then you will find things like off plan, with assignable contracts, people flipping them on once or even twice in the build period, but you don’t want to be the last person holding the baby when the market turns.
Damien: Or, and the risk is that you can’t assign the contract and you have got to buy this property. You need to make sure you have got the funds in place to actually do that, or you could find yourself in a bit of a sticky wicket.
Richard: Exactly, so, you didn’t actually do that one then, but you came close.
Damien: Came pretty close, I did all the way up to the actual assigning of that contract, but I didn’t press the button.
Richard: Fair enough. Ok, I’ve got another one. So, don’t react when I tell you what it is…actually you can…credit cards and personal loans…
Damien: Oh, behave yourself…
Richard: There you go! I’m going to say credit cards and personal loans. Right, so, I’m not necessarily saying—although I am aware of, people who have literally done this. Buy a house using credit cards and personal loans, I’m talking about unsecured personal loans in particular, people have actually done this. And you know, for obvious reasons, its consumer debt, it should be used for consumer purchases. It probably shouldn’t be used at all, but that’s a different conversation. But, you know, there are finance products for specific purposes, credit cards and personal loans shouldn’t really be used to buy a house, although people have done it. My personal confession Damien, is that I have actually done this…but not to buy house, but I have actually done to fund works costs. So, I think this is where it perhaps plays a more relevant and more realistic part of our armoury although one with some risks. And that’s, so if you have got a limited amount of funding, you need to usually to either buy the whole property in cash or at least put a deposit in and then pay for all your fees but then you have got some works to undertake. And those works, depending on what they are can be quite expensive. So, in a couple of cases what I’ve done is, I have used credit cards to pay for materials or I have even used a personal loan to pay for some chunky, more structural works on a couple of projects that I have done. And the idea being is, you settle off the consumer debt once you either refinance or sell that property on. So therein lies the risk, of course if you don’t manage to sell or sell at the right value or refinance at the right value then you end up with a bunch of consumer debt which is costing you a fortune, has high monthly repayments and that sort of thing. So, I’m not necessarily advocating it as a strategy, it’s one that is there, and there are perhaps some variations on this that you could potentially consider, things like offset mortgages, and sort of, even secured loans, could sort of fall into this category and I would recommend it to buy a house. And, in fact, a mortgage lender might have something to say about that if you did, especially if you didn’t declare it. Because I think that would be mortgage fraud.
Damien: That would be mortgage fraud.
Richard: It would be. But if you declared it and they were happy with it, then so be it. But often, they will allow you to have borrowings for funding of works, and that’s how I used it. And I think I’m clean, and you are a qualified mortgage broker so you can tell me if that’s true.
Damien: Well, if this was a video interview you could see my FCA and RICS approved sad face when you talk about all this sort of stuff. We don’t approve any of these such things. But, no, as you say, the reality is, if you are doing—using a credit card to fund works, I mean using a credit card, this is not financial advice people, but, can make sense even if you pay it off in full just because you get an interest free period when you are doing it, so, credit cards, yeah, personal loans, when you do the whole balance transfer, write a cheque from your credit card thing, it’s a bit daft to rely on that, but equally, I know people who have done it, who have taken advantage of the 0%, when everyone was doing 0% balance transfers and things like that. People were effectively using it as a free dip in and out of, they didn’t even have to, they had the cash available to do it, but they thought well, why either take a loan out—not a loan; a mortgage out on it, or pay over and above, take their money out of an investment vehicle when they can pay 0% on somebody else’s money. So, I can see why people do it, but there is all of the caveats you just said, all the big risks involved in consumer finance, and the 17-18% that’s sort of standard once you get outside of any of these deals, that you end up paying off. So, I probably wouldn’t recommend it, but I can see, if used properly its very high risk, but it can work out for you.
Richard: And, we know someone who has made it work particularly well. Mentioning no names, purchasing property part cash part personal loan at round about 4% and part 0% credit card, so, their effective ROI on their personal cash investment was enhanced as a result.
Damien: But, I think as a caveat to that one, the person who did it, is fairly financially astute and sophisticated in fact. But, I think probably over and above that as well, given their knowledge and their background, if anyone was going to do, I would be confident they had looked at all the risks and were able to take a calculated risk on that one.
Richard: Yeah, that’s true. We won’t give the game away too much on who that is. Proceed with caution was definitely the end on that one. Have you got any more on your list?
Damien: I do, how we doing for time?
Richard: We are ok…
Damien: Ok. Then I will crack on. The next one I have got on. Originally you had put these down as two but I’m going to merge them into one anyway. So, it’s working with friends and family. Now I have done that before. And we both sort of threw money into the pot, I put a bit more in than they did, and then I handled all of the desktop due diligence, athe surveying side of things and the finance side of things, which will not surprise most people. Whereas they were more hands on, they actually did the plastering, the works in the property, all that stuff. So I leveraged the fact I had a family member, he was my cousin, who was very good at the practical side of things, didn’t like any of the other stuff to do with property but wanted to get involved in property. So, from a creative financing perspective, it minimised the amount of money I had to put into it, purely from a purchasing point of view of the property, because he put some of his money in, but also, from the work side of things, it saves me having to pay a contractor, because he was the one that did most of the work, he paid for the materials, materials weren’t all that much on the project, it was mostly labour. It again, minimised the cost upfront for me, and then when we sold it we split the profit 50/50, so my return on investment was much higher, than if I had just done it normally. Now, there’s probably a few things to say to about JVs in general, but I think we will go onto that, but specifically, about family, this particular relationship, partnership that we had, it started off very much, let’s get drunk in a pub and discuss this and come up with a good business plan, which is what we did. And we started, we did a couple of properties, then it kind of, because of the family relationship, there were some questions that, if this was purely commercial, would probably…it wouldn’t have been an issue, because we could have just said, well no, we agreed this so that’s what going to happen. Because it was family, it was a bit more negotiated and trying to keep everyone friendly, so at that point I brought in a partnership agreement to lay out exactly what it was we were doing, and then after the next project we did, we just decided actually this isn’t worth falling out over and it didn’t get that way. But I could see… think we could both see it was potentially going that way. So, we just sort of walked away at that point. So, I think the biggest warning I suppose to give on that, is family and money tend not to mix.
Richard: Yeah…I had a similar experience, I think, you know, one the one hand, easier to find, because you know who your friends and family are, you can have a conversation, perhaps there is a degree of trust already, maybe you can work together, maybe there is complementary skillsets like you have identified. So, that’s the plus side, the down side is we often don’t do things properly and that’s probably what you are going to go on to talk about, I guess? I think the down side is, you tend to leave yourself a little bit exposed and, it can get a bit ugly, particularly if there is a personal relationship involved, and some sort of expectation if it’s not fully documented.
Damien: Yeah, so I think it’s very much, a joint venture, it’s just the parties are different from a purely hands off commercial side of things. So, I mean joint ventures are very good creative finance side of things, and it is a win/win, well for all parties if you do it right. But I suppose that’s the big part of it, making sure you do it right. So, there’s a lot of documentation that needs to go into it to make sure everybody…the whole spirit of it is basically what is each individual putting into the deal, whether its finance, time, knowledge, whatever, but what is the expectation of that person, what are they bringing to the table. Similarly, what’s the expectation of the other person and what are they bringing to the table, so you are all 100% clear on, ok you are responsible for this, you are responsible for that, so there is clear differentiation there and then also, play out all the different scenarios and say, if everything goes according to plan, this is what will happen. You will be responsible for this, you will be responsible for that, we will then do this with whatever happens. Don’t just be hopeful and wish everything works out fine, always think, what is it…plan for the worst, hope for the best, so actually plan out, what happens if this goes wrong, what happens if it doesn’t sell within the time frame, what happens if it doesn’t sell for as much, what happens if costs overrun, what happens if I can no longer fulfil my side of that bargain, what happens if they can’t, these are all the things that need to be documented in the JV agreement. There are a lot of people out there at the moment going down the friends and family joint venture route, and even complete hands off strangers, looking for money to do this creative financing thing on the back of, quite often, a course they have been on telling them it’s a great idea. If you don’t document this properly its potentially going to turn around and bite you at some point sown the line and it can get very nasty, it can get very legal, it can get very expensive, and you can lose friends, family members over it or your reputation and a lot of money. So, I think from my side of things, they are probably the bits I’d focus on, I don’t know if, there is anything in particular you would focus on over that?
Richard: Well I think that is a pretty good summary, I mean of course, we ourselves get involved with joint ventures, don’t we? So, we can talk, quite a lot of experience here. Let’s just drill into it a little bit, let’s just talk about some of the things you should document and watch out for. I can do it, or you can do it, whichever one, but when we talk about…
Damien: Go on then, you start and then I know what you are talking about…
Richard: Ok, so, effectively I think you need a joint venture agreement, if it’s a profit sharing joint venture, there is two types. There is just you know, some sort of loan arrangement or there is some sort of profit share arrangement. In either scenario, you need to have a specific contract, so it would either be literally a loan agreement, if that’s the type of arrangement you have, where you are borrowing money, you pay a fixed interest rate, and you set out the terms of that loan, how its repaid, when its repaid all those sorts of thing. If it’s a joint venture agreement, when you are literally profit sharing, you have a joint venture agreement, normally speaking and that’s all the stuff you talked about, defining the roles, the contributions, what is classified as an acceptable cost to the project, what is the exit strategy, what are the contingency plans if it doesn’t go according to plan, how are decisions made, all these sorts of things are in our joint venture agreement. Which I’m looking at right now! And its 7 pages, I’ve seen longer, I’ve seen shorter, but it considers all of the permutations that can happen. And trust me, I’ve seen a few alternatives that people are pushing out there, which have got holes all over them, and I certainly wouldn’t sign as presented, I’d wish to negotiate extra provisions in, which could leave you open ended. For example, not having a pre-defined sales period if you are doing a flip—when is it going to be sold then, how do you decide it’s going to be sold, who decides it’s going to be sold, we cover that often in our joint venture agreement, don’t we Damien?
Damien: When everybody goes into these agreements, everybody’s friendly, everybody’s happy, it’s going to be the greatest thing in the world, and we will make all of the money ever. That’s fine when you start off, as soon as you hit any hurdle in the road, you don’t want to then be negotiating and saying well what do we do now, I think we should do this. Inevitably, you will think you should do something that will benefit you, they will think the opposite, and you could end up at loggerheads. If you then end up going back to the contract and it doesn’t cover that off, you don’t really have a leg to stand on, it is a pure fight over I think this you think that, where do you go from there? As Richard said, we cover all of these things in our JV agreements but we also have a caveat that says, if whatever reason there is something outside of this, or something unusual happens, there is a procedure in place to still get it agreed, get it signed off to everyone’s satisfaction and there is a process in place for that, that, at least, we can move forward and we are not just…well I’m not moving from my position, you are not moving from your position, we are not at a deadlock, nothing happens. So, we have planned for every possible, that we can think of, scenario, but we know there is stuff we don’t even know might know, so we have got something in there that covers that off as well. That is something very rare in contracts that I have seen that people have put out lately.
Richard: Yeah, because the hidden thing is, what if it isn’t covered and then basically no one gets to do anything. But if you can refer to a third party to arbitrate or meditate then, you know, it will get resolved one way or another.
Damien: Isn’t ours the President of the RICS?
Richard: I think it might be, I will look, but whilst I look, I tell you what, the thing we didn’t speak about and I think is relevant in this scenario of joint ventures, is security. So, do you want to pick that up and I will see who we refer to.
Damien: Ok, so, security for joint ventures, if you are sort of the financing person, as Richard said, depending on if it’s a profit split or as a direct fixed interest, what you need to make sure is, you are secure, and if you are the person taking money from someone else, you need to make sure you give them security. So, if it’s an individual purchase, it’s quite easy, quite straightforward to do the first charge on that property, it’s the equivalent of a mortgage then, if everything goes wrong, the house gets repossessed, all the monies would go to the first person who has that first charge. Now, if you are using JV finance with a mortgage in place, that mortgage will always take first charge, and so, the best you can hope for as a JV financer, is then a second charge on the property. Again, this is all if it’s an individual thing. If you start buying into a company name, then you can look at securing your interests against that company. Now, that that opens up a whole series of other questions about company agreements, debentures and how we are going to get that asset backed security. So, we are not going to go into that, because I am not an accountant, but, it’s just…I suppose the biggest thing to highlight is, you need to provide security to anyone lending you money, and if you are lending money, you need to make sure you have security in whatever, way, shape or form that is. Now, a lot of people will do the whole—well just give it us because we are great. That’s fine, but you really have to, you do have to trust them implicitly, again, because if everything goes wrong, where do you stand. So are you going to be able to take that person to bankruptcy courts to try and make them sell their personal home if that’s the only route you have got left versus, well ok, the projects gone massively wrong but at least I effectively own this property. So, when we are doing joint ventures with people, we always make sure anyone who has given us any form of money, is always ahead of us in the queue, waiting for their money. So, whether they get first charge over the property, or anything like that, we always put the client first and work back from that. And that’s kind of that, more of an ethos and values that we have as a company, but that’s something, you, if you are going to go this route, you should make sure you are getting that protected. And if you are the one who is going to do it then, I mean as I say, from our values point of view, we think you should be doing that as well, because someone is putting a lot of effort and time and money, well effort and time, into making the money they have got. If they then give it to you, you do have that responsibility, a moral, ethical, fiduciary responsibility to be sensible with their money, and make them money if that’s what they want to do, protect their money if that’s what they want to do, provide them with an asset that’s going to give them long term security, all that stuff. Ok, so, tried not go into too much of a moral rant there, but there are a lot of people out there, that are slightly dubious of that side of things. I’d like to think that’s how we stand out anyway.
Richard: Of course, I agree with you, that’s how we work. But I think the key there is that sometimes people will go into joint ventures or loans, on an unsecured basis. That’s fine as long as you know what you are doing and you know what your risks are. And, by the way, you better have a decent reward if that’s what you are doing. But, even if you are promised 100% return, if you have no actual, tangible security to go after, how sure are you of being able to recover your money. So, that’s why we tend to shy away from that type of arrangement, and offer some kind of security. There are all sorts of things you could do. You mentioned, deeds and declarations of trust, and this sort of thing earlier. That’s a variation of course you can put in place, you can have restrictions on title and this sort of things as well, which provides a level of security. We have done the security thing to death. By the way, the arbitration thing in our contract, we refer to the Chartered Institute of Arbitrators. There we go, we thought it was RICS but actually, we defer to the rules of the Chartered Institute of Arbitrators and we submit that into court as being final judgement. So, if we don’t agree, if it’s not agreement and we don’t agree, that’s where we go and that’s who decides on our behalf.
Damien: I feel like you chose that one rather than the RICS, for some reason, I imagine I would have just said yes, use the RICS.
Richard: Well maybe we should in future, who knows. I’m relaxed as long as we have got… someone we can refer to, talks sensible and is independent, that’s what you need. Not your mum, she is always going to side with you. That’s been brilliant. I think, just in interests of time, we probably ought to think about wrapping it, I don’t know if there is anything else you wanted to say, more general thing, or anything that’s been missed Damien?
Damien: Not particularly no. Nothing I can think of anyway.
Richard: Some other things came out didn’t they, as we went along? There are risks, perhaps with some of these strategies, there are commercial aspects you need to think about, how you find these people to offer these creative financing techniques. And then ultimately how you contract and how you rely on security. Some of the big takeaways, perhaps one or two more that I can’t think of right now. But, we have mopped up 10 more creative financing strategies, that you maybe have in your armoury. By all means, reach out to us if you want to talk about any of those we spoke about. Particularly the ones we have got some experience in! Yeah, we can probably help you more with those. Damien, I just want to say thanks a lot, as ever it’s great to have you on and get your insights and your views, in the colourful way that you share things.
Damien: I mean, this was me very monotone, or monochrome even, its gets more colourful. Always a pleasure joining you Richard, and hopefully your audience found that useful.
Richard: Yeah and thanks a lot. And we avoided the swear words, don’t get one in now…thanks Damien, I will talk to you soon. Bye for now.
Interview with Subject Matter Expert: Damien Fogg.
So, there we have the big news…Damien managed to avoid swearing for an entire hour talking property bless him!
On a serious note, that’s another 10 creative financing strategies covered off over the past couple of episodes, 8 of which we have actually done ourselves, one was a near-miss and another…we have had some personal experience of, whilst not actually deploying it.
So, you might be happy to note that we don’t go around squatting in people’s houses for a living then I imagine!
Next time, I shall do a bit of a series wrap up, which will attempt to pick up some of the salient and potentially common or less well known themes that have been shared by my guests over the past couple of months. A few popped up at the end of the discussion with Damien, such as risks, commercial factors, how to find the opportunities, how best to contract and finally what level of security is available. I imagine there will be others though, so do make sure you join me in the series finale to find out more.
Don’t forget our 360° Property Business Workshops later this month that I mentioned earlier. But, as always, email me personally if you want to talk about anything from today’s show or more generally in property investing, the show notes will be over at the website www.thepropertyvoice.net
Thank you very much for listening once again this week and until next time on The Property Voice Podcast…it’s ciao-ciao.